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the leverage because he knows if it goes over the fiscal cliff, tax cuts expires and he'll never let the top 2% get that tax cut reinstated. if they do what you suggested, vote the tax cut, continue it for the 98%, then the leverage switches to them come the time of the debt limit. they might be able to make a deal where they save some of it so it doesn't go up to 39%. maybe goes up to 37.5%. maybe they do the buffett rule and only raise rates on people making $500,000. they have a little room to leverage but right now they have zero leverage, zero. >> do you agree with that? i don't know if i agree with that. it's hard once the rates go back to 39.6 or whatever they go to, to go back and say, now we to want cut taxes for the rich. what's the reason to do it? the republican party says we have to stop the government, stop paying our debts, don't pay our bills anymore because we have to help out the rich now. that would be the worst situation to be in. >> as the conversation shifts really to the bottom line in the deficit. at the end of the day the whole thing is about -- it's optical illusions
to continue the tax cuts for the 98% now and therefore avoid the fiscal cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the sameç people pay moref their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> let's allow higher rates to go up for the top 2%, that includes all of you, yes. but not in any way that's going to affect your spending, your lifestyles, or the economy in any significant way. let's make sure that 98% of americans don't s
with the latest on the rapidly approaching fiscal cliff deadline of automatic tax hikes on everybody and what appears to be a stalemate in the negotiations. in his first interview since the election, president obama reiterated his demand that any deal must raise taxes on the highest earner. yesterday obama also appeared to showroom for flexibility on actually relowering those tax rates in the future. >> i don't think that the issue right now has to do with sitting in a room. the issue right now that's relevant is the acknowledgement that if we're going to raise revenues that are sufficient to balance with the very tough cuts that we've already made and the further reforms and entitlements that i'm prepared to make, that we're going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. p what i've suggested is let's essentially put a down payment on taxes. let's let tax rates on the upper income folks go up. and then let's set up a process with a time certain at the end of 2013 or the fall of 2013 where we work on tax reform, we look at what loo
the pieces coming together on the fiscal cliff some increase in marginal tax rates coupled with some kind of cutting back on tax expenditures. the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package and if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration has been clear they will not sign anything. even to get past december 31st. so do you think they can hold firm on that if republicans offer them a package that doesn't include the debt ceiling? >> this is where i think the tension is now arising, which is even if you have some agreement over the tax rates which will jam the republicans a bit, can you jam them on the debt limit also, the concern will be an administration overstepping or overream reaching and trying to jam in the kinds being discussed now. i'm all in favor of getting rid of the debt limit. it makes no sense from a technical perspective. but it's probably a br
the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is still off the table. >> the revenues on the table are coming from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal and our outline, i think he's got an obligation to send one to the congress. a plan that can pass both chambers of congress. >> joining me now is former vermont governor howard dean and msnbc's krystal ball. governor dean, our treasury secretary is a very carwful speaker. when asked if they're prepared to go off the cliff, his first word was absolutely. there was nothing, nothing could be more clear that this administration means what they say about getting what they want at this point. >> yeah. the only problem is -- this is a little initially going to team like heresy, the truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich. that's a good start. we won't get out of the problem to rai
knew how to do that there would be more give and take on the fiscal cliff issue, on the tax reform and entitlement reforms that we get next year, and there is a sense he really could use a bit of some fresh blood to make things a little easier going forward. >> chris, susan, and ari, thank you very much for all joining us. and the jobs report, more jobs are added in november than was predicted. what does it all mean for the economy? we'll have our own reality check next. first, new jersey governor chris christie stops by "the daily show" to chat with jon stewart about his run-in with the boss. >> and he came up and put his hand out and i shook his hand. i tried to be cool. >> sure. >> i wasn't. >> no. >> and then he said, come on, give me a hug. and i said all right. and i hugged him. >> did he go, come on stop, let me go? >> no. i was -- that's always hard to judge, when do you stop the man hug? that's hard. >> did you give had him -- you got to give also this the pat or just go slow dance? >> i went slow dance. >> you have to be kidding me. >> i went slow dance. >> no pat. i went
pelosi was talking about wasn't exactly the tax cuts now, fiscal cliff later. both sides have said this has to be a two-step process, there has to be some kind of commitment in downpayment on taxes and entitlement cuts and sets up a framework for broader and comprehensive tax and entitlement reform next year because it is such a big, huge change to how we tax and how we would provide medicare and medicaid and social security, you can't do it all in four books. this new idea that republicans get more leverage if they give the president taxes now and hold out on, and hold the line on the debt ceiling like they did last summer successfully is something that is new and i think a different kind of two-part plan that republicans are starting to consider as maybe a backup plan that gives them the ability to say we lost the 2% tax hikes now, but we're going to fight later on the debt ceiling. >> let me bring in congressman james lang foford, fifth rankin republican in the house, congratulations, good morning. >> thank you, good morning. >> let me ask you about the possibility of some sort
, ands or buts on that specific aspect of the fiscal cliff. >> with respect to the tax rates, i want to emphasize, i am open to new ideas. i'm not going to slam the door in their face. i want to hear -- i want to hear ideas from everybody. >> that's not a no. here is the treasury secretary timothy geithner. >> there's no agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2%. >> not necessarily going up to the clinton era rates. just going up. today at a press conference at the capital, boehner got a question about this. listen carefully to how he responded or didn't respond. >> you did speak with the president earlier this week. can you characterize this call? and also we understand that he just is making clear that it's got to be increasing rates for the wealthy or no deal. are you willing to give a little bit? maybe just not all the way to 39.6? >> the phone call was pleasant, but just more of the same. the conversations that the staff had yesterday, just more of the same. it's time for the president, if he's serious, to come back to us with a counteroffer. >> not a no on
and others to avoid the fiscal cliff between now and december 31st but take what we agree on which is that the middle class tax cuts should be extended and tax rates should not go up for the middle class, let's do that now. the republicans refuse to do that thus far, which is sort of baffling. even some of their senior members like tom cole from oklahoma have said let's take that deal, but let's pass the tax cuts for the middle class and we're talking about making sure that tax rates for 98% of all americans and 97% of all businesses. it's a small percentage of individuals that make more than $250,000 a year that tax rates would go up just a little bit. we had an election, thomas, where americans had a clear choice and they chose and we need to make sure that we think a balanced approach that is fair, that doesn't throw the middle class under the bus and that works mathematically. so far what we've seen from republicans in the house does not work in terms of reducing the deficit. >> congresswoman, we are watching the president on our screen at the business roundtable. there was an
would still go over the fiscal cliff. remember, the bush tax cuts are one of the at least stimulative policies in the negotiations. according to the economic policy institute, extending the middle class tax cuts would wipe out only about 11% of the austerity's economic impact. 11%. but all that other stuff, the payroll tax cut, the unemployment insurance, the sequester, all that, that would still be expiring. so come early next year, the economy would likely be entering an austerity-induced recession. markets would be convulsing as they realize our austerity crisis is about to become also a default crisis. and so the economy, as a whole, is going to be going nuts. poll after poll already shows republicans are receiving more blame for the potential failure of the debt talks. and after telling the press they're going to make a strategic decision to use a debt ceiling as more and more dangerous leverage, they're likely going to get blamed for that, too. and that will be much worse in the polls. republicans may believe the white house can be so afraid of default that it would simply capit
're offering up an $800 billion tax increase, that's a big deal but it doesn't save us from the fiscal cliff. as susan was suggesting, there's a long time to go between now and the 31st. they have to wait until that long because neither side wants to appear to be giving in too early. that means they've given away more than they had to. you've got the president out there stirring the pot, trying to bring public opinion more to his side. the republicans are struggling to find some message to keep up with it. the danger is this whole thing boils over in animosity before the 31st and they go off the cliff because they have antagonized each other so much. >> and speaking of antagonistic situations, there's been a lot made of the dysfunction within the republican party but there's an article on the front page of the "new york times" that suggests that speaker boehner is actually in a stronger position in his caucus than when he was elected two years ago. how is he doing, do you think? >> well, i think he's in a stronger position because republicans feel like they're in a weaker position. i think a
like the fiscal cliff negotiations, immigration reform has become like taxes and spending. do you do it step-by-step, which is what the republicans like, because they'd like to show they are tough on security and there isn't a legal path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, or do you do the whole thing all together? if i were carl rove, which isn't something i imagine myself being often, i would knock on the door of olympia snowe and say what are your lessons for us? >> fun conversation. >> that would actually be a fun conversation. we hope that carl rove, if you're listening, takes that advice. >>> coming to the recent data, planned parenthood provides less than 5% of resources to abortion services, but that's not stopping republicans in their quest to defund the organization entirely. we'll head to the lone star state and take a look at the eye of the storm just ahead. >>> lauren wanted to introduce cabbage to mainstream america. she created mother-in law's kimchi. for more, watch 7:30 on msnbc. we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's amazing how
on a fiscal cliff deal. meanwhile, the president said he's confident republicans will cave on the tax increases. we'll discuss the fiscal cliff with our "morning joe" panel. >>> and now, mercifully, i need your help. are you with me on this one? the phrase fiscal cliff, i'm over it, time's up, date reached on the expiration, nails on the chalkboard annoying. can't we be a little more creative? this is where you come in. e-mail your alternative to the phrase "fiscal cliff," and i'll use the best one tomorrow on our show. we won't use fiscal cliff, i promise. so far, my best, budgetary bluff? yeah, the bar's been set very low. >>> up next, we'll huddle around the water cooler, where jon stewart stepped out of his comfort zone with an eminem-inspired rap for the michigan protesters. >>> well, enough with the real news. let's gather around the water cooler. and first, a little moment of silence. louis louis, who wouldn't miss a second of on-camera opportunity has been talking to the porcelain god all night. not sure why. we wish you the best, louis. see you tomorrow morning. >>> well, a d
to take the plunge over the fiscal cliff if he doesn't get the tax increases over the wealthy. but will republicans agree to a broader deal? we have that conversation just ahead. when we come back right here, we're going to huddle around the water cooler. we have to get some space. let's put them in another room. allen simpson resorts to dancing "gangnam style" to make people interested about the debt. >> that's not pretty. >> we'll be right back. >>> i'm over. i'm done. >> let's go to the control room. >> we hear it's a strong -- >> what's your nickname? >> i know you know korean pop phenom and his song is one of your favorites. >> you should see my brother do this. >> you're not alone. it's youtube's most watched video. it even rubbed off on the debate over the national debt, specifically on 81-year-old senator allen simpson. >> stop instagramming your breakfast and getting on youtube until you can see "gangnam style." ♪ and start using those precious social media skills and go out and sign people up on this baby, three people a week. let it grow. take part or get taken ap
and the payroll tax cut? these are parts of the fiscal cliff negotiations we have not paid a lot of attention to, and also the white house's argument about further stimulus spending, undermined by this notion out there based on these numbers that the economy is recovering? >> yeah. i think that's right. i think the problem with a good number and decline in the unemployment rate it takes away from the argument that the fiscal cliff would be this ultimate disaster, we can't afford to do it, look at these jobs numbers they're terrible, need to move to make sure there's no austerity, no big spending taxes. that argument is less powerful when you see a report like this. to ayman's point, it's right to say that every jobs report can be off by hundred thousand jobs. the trend is 150,000 per month for two years. these jobs reports are almost the same. on consumer confidence that's the most important factor in the fiscal cliff and the trend is decent but today's number terrible. 84 to 72, the fiscal cliff fears are starting to impact the way people spend their money. if that continues into december for t
was afraid to claim it next year because of the fiscal cliff and there might be higher taxes. >>> hsbc is about to pay up the biggest penalty ever imposed on the banks. mandy drury is here. mandy, the british banking giant going to pay a whopping $1.9 billion. what, they're making this money laundering probe go away? >> it's very interesting decision, actual ily, what came out of this, chris, because given the extent of evidence against hhbc, they are see ing there is the better of two evils. maybe you can call it a healthy compromise between a settlement and also a much harsher money laundering indictment. obviously this might hurt the bank's reputation but hopefully not a whole lot more than that because at the end of the day a harsher indictment would have sparked concerns that criminal charges could jeopardize what is one of the world's largest banks and therefore destabilize the global financial system. i guess you could call this maybe a case of has it become too big to indict. instead it just got the record $1.92 billion settlement. >> a big star is making a deal apparently with
they want to focus on the taxes and get us over the fiscal cliff. but as i said before, it doesn't matter what the president says about the debt ceiling fight. republicans are not budging on taxes without entitlement reform. they're willing to go over the cliff and when there's nothing else to talk about but the debt ceiling increase in january, it has to be for medicare reform and exchange. >> dollar figure on entitlement reform, what are you thinking? >> the president has offered $400 billion. they would look for, they don't think those are real aggressive reforms. they would look for a higher number and they would look for more substantial changes to the program. they don't think those are really getting at the drivers of debt in the program. >> ed, politico today, there's an article on entitlements. republicans ready to get any victory that they can. according to this article. the article goes on to say quote they're going to have to lower their sights by a lot. from the big ideas they pushed in the presidential campaign. with obama in the white house for another four years, republica
to governor haley's called." >>> some conservatives are having emotional debates over the fiscal cliff negotiations. the arguments for higher taxes for the wealthy are getting very tense. ann coulter even tried a reality check on sean hannity. >> are you saying, then, for pr purposes, that they should give in to obama on the tax rate? >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am, but -- >> you're saying capitulate to obama, who -- we don't have a revenue problem, ann. >> we lost the election, sean. >>> meanwhile, the house of representatives passed legislation yesterday removing the word lunatic from all federal laws. it's the latest move by congress to remove language seen as demeaning or out of date, like lunatic. >>> and in australia, prime minister julia gillard talked about the supposed prediction by the mayan calendar that the end of the world is coming in two weeks. well, she did it for a comedy video for a radio show. >> i'm confident in the prediction that the world is about to end. whether the final blow comes from flesh-eating zombies, demonic hill beasts or from the total trium
of what he had to say regarding the fiscal cliff and the threat that looms. let me play it. >> when it comes to raising taxes on the wealthy, those making more than $250,000, if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> so is it a bluff when the obama administration says they're willing to go off the cliff if a deal is not reached on rates? >> i don't think it's a bluff. if you look at the reality of what happens, all the leverage which i -- right now clearly the white house has. they get more leverage if we go over their cliff. you can argue that would not send a good message to the country, to the world. it would prove that we are dysfunctional and cannot govern, et cetera, et cetera. in terms of dealing with the policy problem, which is you have this massive and growing debt, you have to bring in more revenues. there's multiple ways to do it, but critical ways to raise rates on the top end. it was what
taxes on the top earners are we definitively heading over the fiscal cliff? >> i don't think we'll have a deal. the president has made that very clear that the top earners ought to be paying more and we should be dealing with tax rates going up as opposed to just revising the tax code and looking at deductions. and so i think the president has been very firm. and he is getting a lot of backup from people who stood in long lines on election day to elect him. he's well aware of that. but i think that's where his heart is, too. this is not something new. this is something that he campaigned on. and he won on. if you look at the polling numbers, this is what the american people voted for. they said that the upper earners should be paying more. >> i'm curious, though, from the president's perspective, how important is a deal now whether it's just a deal or the deal that he wants in terms of his second term, his overall political power if you will? how does that play out? >> knowing the president as i do, i think it is very important to him that he gets a deal. but i also know that he believe
their fiscal cliff end game. give in on taxes and take the economy hostage again. congressman chris van hollen responds tonight. >>> somehow raising the medicare eligibility age is back in the fiscal cliff discussion. david cay johnston says it would be -- to do it, and he is here tonight. >> what we shouldn't be doing is try to take away your rights to bargain for better working conditions. >> in michigan, the president stands up for workers like he has never done before. >> these so-called right the work laws, they don't have to do with economics. they have everything to do with politics. >> tonight the president's big speech, and why the fight in michigan is an assault on workers everywhere. >>> plus, major news on a white house push for immigration reform. in 40 years after man's last trip to the moon, a return voyage may be a reality. astronomer derrick ditz will tell you why the golden spike is a big deal. good to have you with us, folks. thanks for watching. the new republican strategy is to take the american economy hostage when they don't get what they want. they realize their back is
of the fiscal cliff. as you know, republicans have talked about the very least extending the middle class tax cuts, taking up that piece of legislation. it would be better if we could deal with all of the issues as part of an agreement, but even republicans, lots of them, are saying, you know, worst case scenario, they would pass the middle class tax cut extension, which is a significant component of the fiscal cliff. it's not all of it, because you also have the see quester. you also have the payroll tax cut extension issue. of course, you have the president's jobs initiatives which he has proposed as part of an effort not just to maintain the current level of economic activity, but to increase it and put more people back to work. best case scenario is we get an agreement that resolves all those issues as well as the debt ceiling, but at the very least i think we would avoid big pieces of the fiscal cliff. thanks for joining us today. >> good to be with you. >> what will come from the closed door meeting between the president and speaker pain every wresh we'll talk with bill daley, former ch
't rule out an agreement to raise taxes as part of a fiscal cliff deal. but he also said there's no progress. this is what winning looks like. joining me now, e.j. dionne and thank you both for your time. senator solis, the jobless rate is at a four-year low. that's quite an achievement. >> yes, reverend re. but we still need to do more. in sectors like retail and health care and tourism and hospitality. we need to do more because people are still suffering. we've got to put jobs back in infrastructure and construction and put our teachers. that's why the president is working so hard so we don't go off the fiscal cliff so we keep the most vulnerable people out of harm's way. to pay $2,200. we've got to talk about fairness here and i'm very excited that the public is listening to the message that the president has made very, very clear. >> 146,000 new private sector jobs last month but one of the things that you talk about is the public sector. the president has proposed about $50 billion in infrastructure jobs which would be the public sector which is where a lot of the most hi
americans who can see their income taxes go up similar to the photo-op, the fiscal cliff photo-op of yesterday which was the president meeting with the middle class family. now to jobs. we have something of a surprise report. jobs turned out to be up up. the jobless rate is down and the word from the government is that sandy had no substantive effect on the data. here are the numbers. unemployment down to 7.7%. the economy added 146,000 jobs, not great but good. a third of that came from the retail sector. 53,000 jobs added. professional and business services up 43,000. leisure and hospitality up. construction, though, lost 20,000 jobs. we should note that jobs numbers were revise d downward, though, for september and october. in september it was revised from 148,000 gain to 238,000. went from 138,000 to 132,000. this month, the 7.7 is a full point lower than where we were at this time last year. so what are we supposed to make of these numbers and does the november report provide us a real sense of where this recovery is right now? let's bring in the man we like to bring in ev
there will be no deal to avert the so-called fiscal cliff without the rich paying a higher tax rate. got it? higher rate. in this interview on bloomberg tv, he made it. let's listen. >> the issue right now that's relevant is the acknowledgment that if we're going to raise revenues that are sufficient to balance with the very tough cuts that we've already made and the further reforms in entitlements that i'm prepared to make, that we're going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up, and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> there you heard it again, top rates have to go up, and rates. and some republicans are saying that the gop will ultimately say uncle. conservative columnist byron york, a very smart guy, wrote, quote, republicans will cave on the question of raising the tax rate for the highest income americans. the only question is whether they do so before or after the government goes over the so-called fiscal cliff. "new york times" columnist david brooks describes it this way. republicans will be raising middle class taxes in order to serve the rich. shafting sam's club to b
the impact of a tax increase for 98% of americans if a deal the on the fiscal cliff is not reefed. while negotiations appear to be at a standstill, we know president obama and house speaker john boehner finally spoke by phone yesterday. the first conversation in a week. we don't know what they talked about or how long they spoke, because both men agreed to keep details of the conversation between the two of them. meanti meantime, democrats are digging in heels saying no deem if republicans refuse to let go of tax cuts for the wealthy. >> it's really time for republicans to face reality. i would hope the house of representatives would look closely at what's going on with senators coming out saying please, mr. speaker, do something about protecting the middle class. >>
before the fiscal cliff's automatic spending cuts and tax hikes kick in, a new politico/gw poll shows 60% of americans favor higher taxes for people making $250,000 or more a year. that hasn't changed. the politics of taxes hasn't changed. ari shapiro, michelle bernard, and chris join me. the president, boehner, behind closed doors, they're not reading anything. they did it without any other leaders. i think the real negotiations have finally started. >> that's a good sign when we're not hearing much, when they're saying everything is a disaster or we're making progress. when they're meeting and saying we're not going to tell anybody what happened behind closed doors, to me that's getting somewhere. >> look at the clock. if everybody wants to get up. senator joe man offion. the smell of the jet fumes from national all want to be out here before the 24th. if if the bill on the 18th it at the latest, that means to get a bill written like that you need to have the frame wok by the 14th or 15th. today is the 10th. >> the framework a little plug and play. >> you can do an extension. if it rea
a number of things including the fiscal tax -- sorry. the fiscal cliff looming ahead of republicans and the sort of begrudging view towards reality that the tax rates are going to rise. he talks about marco rubio and paul ryan and offering a vision for the gop. but at the end of the day, marco rubio has said i don't want to pursue comprehensive immigration reform. and look -- >> let's be honest here. >> go ahead. marco rubio said he's not so sure science is a form of evaluating how old the earth is. gave me a break here. you can put lipstick on a pig, it doesn't change the pig. these guys are trying to dress themselves up and avoid talking about the issues. as long as they nominate people like todd aiken and richard murdo murdoch, they're not going to avoid these issues. and as long as they have primary voters who make mitt romney, as they called himself a severe conservative. he was severe all right. they can't win. they can win if they change hemss. they got to stop beating up on gays. stop beating up on immigrants. stop beating up on muslims, and understand what america is really
ahead of the fiscal cliff that presumably will include a rise in the rate on capital gains and how dividends had the income that a stock may pay will be taxed in 2013. some of them are selling today when they know and that sort of income will be. however the stock market has been on a glide path over the past couple of weeks. this signals two things. that investors had this before the deal end. it doesn't matter because as it slips into january. it will be a resolution after congress comes back on the third of january or if not that before the president is inaugurated again on the 20th of january. you saw how the market is higher by about 40 points on the dow. >> thank you so much and good to see you. still ahead, thousands of voters waited in hours long line on election day like these folks in florida. eric holder is calling for voting changes. what he is proposing. one of the things we thought you should know. we will talk about how bob menendez is preparing for the next battle in congress, immigration. conservative leaders are giving cover to house republicans, fearful of the im
of the fiscal cliff, higher taxes on everybody. one thing that will happen without an agreement, all the bush tax rates go away, so everyone's taxes are going to go up. you'll see that emphasized over the next couple weeks. you'll hear the white house talk about what a bad situation there will be after january 1 if this deal is not cut. >> david jackson, "usa today," shira toeplitz, "roll call." we appreciate your time so much we'll talk to you later in the hour as well. >> thank you. >>> the last remaining house race of the 2012 election cycle is pabt to come to a close. in louisiana, republican congressman charles boustany jr., jeff landry facing off in a runoff election. they were forced to run in the same district in bayou because of the state's shrinking congressional delegation. both conservative republicans, landry a tea party freshman. we'll keep you abreast of what happens. >>> meanwhile, high drama about to surround the high court as the justices agree to take on the high-stakes issue of same-sex marriage. ♪ >>> the man with that most-watched youtube video of all time due to perfo
of the fiscal cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that the president campaigned on. it had more stimulus spending than it had in cuts. and an indefinite, infinite increase on the debt limit, like forever. four days ago we offered a serious proposal, based on testimony of president clinton's former chief of staff. since then, there's been no counteroffer from the white house. instead, reports indicate that the president has adopted a deliberate strategy to slow-walk our economy right to the edge of the cliff. instead of cutting spending, the president want to raise tax rates. but even if the president got the tax rate hike that he wanted, understand that we would c
? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 withholding taxes go up to the tune of $400 billion. >> not necessarily. >> it would have a very negative effect on the economy. according to the legislation they would, jared. >> they would not. >> jared, you have to -- >> let me make a point. the treasury secretary can decide if he or she believes a deal sl imminent not to adjust withholding tables. very important. >> i'm talking about no deal and we go off the cliff. >> we go off and stay off. >> it's $400 billion. we have a lot of things to do with regard to our debt ceiling, and my feeling is no one really believes the united states of america is going to default on its debt even if it lapses. we're dealing with different things. one is real and substantive and the other is psychological. >> i really disagree. >> i know you do. >> we could have a good discussion about this if we had more time. the idea that if the debt ceiling lapses, peter, that means that we can no longer borrow from credit markets and can't finance our debt. >> we're doing most of
doors trying to break the tax and spending stalemate that threatens to take the country over the fiscal cliff in just over three weeks. meanwhile, one by one republicans are bowing to the president's demand that takes go up for the wealthy. >> will i accept a deal? >> yes. >> we don't have a lot of cards before year end. we have one house. that's it, the presidency and the senate. it's in the democrat's hands. >> since we agree with the democrats, 98% of the american people and 80% of the bush tax cuts, i would get that off the table now so they don't worry about it. >> democrats insist taxes are going up on the rich no matter what. >> if you don't increase tax rates 2%, you won't generate enough revenue to have meaningful deficit reductions. >> republicans want big spending cuts to programs like medicare and social security. >> we don't want to be back here in another year or ten years answering the same questions. >> reporter: as talks continue on both sides of pennsylvania avenue, americans from main street to wall street wait to see who will blink first. brian moore, nbc news in was
administration is willing to go over the fiscal cliff. nbc's tracie potts joins us live from washington with an update. good morning to you. >> reporter: let's start with geithner. he told cnbc that instead of continuing tax breaks for the wealthy, the obama administration is willing to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy. now there's been very little progress here on chiapitol hill which is why so many have gone home. we know that president obama and john boehner spoke by phone. republican sources telling us they had a conversation yesterday. we don't have a readout on what that was about. we don't know that if any meetings have been scheduled. but any small sign of progress is welcome here on capitol hill. now with so many lawmakers headed home and likely to face the ire of their constituents, we saw one protester in baltimore yesterday over social security. there are a few left. today there's a joint economic committee he
will not play that game. >> tonight, democratic whip steny hoyer gives me the latest fiscal cliff developments and the democratic line on medicare. tom perriello from the center of american progress action fund on how democrats can deal with republicans who can't deal with reality. rubio and ryan reload with a new message for the middle class. >> both parties tend to divide americans into our voters and their voters. >> but there is no escaping their own policies. >> we're going to a majority of takers versus makers in america. >> dnc chair debbie wasserman schultz responds tonight. plus, senator barbara boxer on her new plan for national polling place standards. and a new poll shows half of all republicans think the defunct group a.c.o.r.n. stole the election from president obama. >> that's an eye opener. >> i wonder where they ever got that idea? >> you just have to wait and see what happens. >>> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. here is are the latest. republicans are at a stalemate with the white house for debt negotiations. republicans really only have two opti
cliff. >> so obviously, republicans are trying to change the conversation from taxes to cuts. what do they want? >> well, they want entitlement reform and what we've seen is that the white house has moved a little bit. the president seems to be open to some form of entitlement reform, maybe not what john boehner wants, but they have said in the last couple of days that they will do corporate tax reform. so we are seeing some movement from the white house, but nothing yet from the house republicans. >> all right. john boehner just came to the microphone. he's just met with his caucus. let's see if he has anything new. >> -- the president's plan to avert the fiscal cliff still does not meet the two standards that i laid out the day after the election. his plan does not fulfill his promise to bring a balanced approach to solving this problem. it's mainly tax hikes. and his plan does not begin to solve our debt crisis. it actually increases spending. our plan meets these standards. it cuts spending, paves the way for real job growth in our country. in the five weeks since we've signaled o
with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the char itible deduction. >> an obsession to raise taxes not going to solve the problem. what will solve the problem is doing something about the entitlements, taking on the wasteful spending in washington. >> and meantime, "the new york times" jonathan wiseman reports behind the scene republican leaders are considering the president's plan to extend middle class tax cuts now an address the debt and spending in the new year. here's republican senator tom coburn on "morning joe." >> actually, i would rather see the rates go up than the other way and greater chance to broaden the base in the future. >> do something, a down payment on cuts, on investments and revenue this year. and then in the
. >> the uncertainty? >> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who diagnosed you with a severe ill sxns won't sign the precipitation to give you the medicine. they emphasize the joblessness problem, and they don't want to give you unemployment insurance and tell that to someone laid off sleeping in their car. >> with these jobs numbers, had hurricane sandy not struck how better would this report have been? >> a lot of this was construction job weakness. clearly, that will rebound. one of the unfortunate upsides of natural disaster is that you do, whether the states or federal governments do it or insurance companies, you have a lot of infrastructure spending as people re
for the bush tax cuts to be made permanent for rich and poor as part of a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. and the very same christine welker joins us live from the white house. you reported this earlier today. the speaker's office is now pushing back a little bit claiming there are no parameters on what tax reform would look like. but they aren't denying what you said, are they? >> they're not directly denying it. their point is raising tax rates or keeping them low is a moot point. because they have always been opposed to raising tax rates on wealthy americas. they say it would hurt small business owners. they're calling for overall tax reform, they say. but this has evolved into a game of chicken with both sides refusing to concede anything until the other side does first. so yesterday it seemed like there was some movement. today it seems as though these negotiations are really to some extent falling apart. as you know president obama and john boehner spoke on the phone yesterday. sources on both sides are describing that phone conversation as tense in large part because of this issue
sands corporation ahead of any tax increases that come could come out of the fiscal cliff negotiations. >>> and finally, politico reports ashley judd is seriously considering a run for mitch mcconnell's senate seat in kentucky. judd has talked with new york senator gillibrand and a democrat being pollster. judd is honored at being considered. and that's your morning dish of scrambled politics. now a check of your national weather. we turn to bill karins. he has the weather channel forecast for you. which continues to be a little toasty. >> a little balmy. >> put the sunscreen on. nice. >> you probably needed it in some spots. so many stories of flowers and trees and green glass and lack of snow out there. but things have changed. this map shows you where it's gotten colder and warmer compared to this time yesterday. and you notice that chicago is much colder right now. you've returned back to normal winter conditions, while the eastern seaboard is even warmer this morning than it was yesterday. yesterday it was very warm. we are watching a few showers out there, too, but these temperat
the country will think republicans are to blame if we go over the fiscal cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he had a faction that was lining up against him wholeheartedly. even after yesterday we heard all the stuff of fallout from the conservative right against his position, that conference this morning was pretty supportive of speaker boehner and seem to be -- say something we say way too often here in washington, d.c., doubling down on the speaker's approach, at least here in early december. >> everyone seems to be doubling down, luke. i mean the idea that now nobodies's moving at all. i thought it was interesting that boehner is
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